EP301- Balancing Beauty & Biodiversity Support Listener Question Answered: Building A Beautiful Biodiversity Garden Without The Mess

A warm, rain-soaked week and a thoughtful listener email sparked a timely deep dive into a familiar garden tension: how do you build a biodiversity-rich space that everyone agrees looks beautiful? We take you step by step through turning a former lawn into a living ecosystem, balancing what pollinators need with what people want to see. If you’ve ever faced the “it looks messy” critique, this guide offers design moves that flip the script without sacrificing wildlife value.

We start by resetting expectations around wildflower meadows, especially those sown over ex-lawn. Without an existing seed bank, grass dominates and colour can lag. The fixes are practical and patient: keep removing cuttings to lower fertility, use yellow rattle to weaken grass, and scarify pockets for targeted sowing. Then, make the space legible. Mown paths and a small seating or yoga circle instantly signal intent, invite people into the habitat, and create daily contact with bees, birds and seed heads.

For early-season colour that truly helps wildlife, we champion a smart mix of native stalwarts and pollinator-friendly non-natives. Plant bluebells, crocus, muscari, snowdrops and daffodils in generous drifts where they’ll be seen. Add camassias for height and impact in grass, wood anemone in shade, and native primrose for soft, spreading bloom. To elevate the whole garden, bring in structure: crab apples like Malus ‘Evereste’ for blossom and fruit, willows for vital spring catkins, and sorbus for autumn berries. A wildlife pond multiplies life further, and herb-rich borders with rosemary, sage, thyme, lemon balm and borage keep nectar flowing while feeding your kitchen.

Layer in small habitat features—dead hedges, sand banks for solitary bees, bug hotels, bird feeders—and you’ll shift from “wildflower patch” to a functioning ecosystem. Along the way, we share how to tell the garden’s story so sceptical partners and neighbours can see the purpose behind the look. Subscribe for more practical, seasonal tips, share this with a friend planning a meadow, and leave a review with your favourite early pollinator plant—we’ll feature the best picks on a future show.

Chapters

• 0:12 Rain, Warmth And Autumn Harvests
• 2:12 Listener Email And Meadow Context
• 5:11 The Reality Of Wildflower Meadows
• 8:30 Blending Native And Non‑Native For Biodiversity
• 11:40 Fixing Former Lawns: Seed Banks And Rattle
• 15:00 Designing Paths, Seats And Shared Use
• 18:20 Early Spring Bulbs That Truly Help
• 21:00 Add Structure: Trees That Feed And Flower
• 24:00 Ponds, Borders And Layered Habitats
• 28:10 Herbs, Habitats And Selling The Story
• 32:30 Recap, Upcoming Episodes And Invite

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:12

How's it going everybody and welcome to episode 301 of Master My Garden Podcast? Now, this week's episode, I'm going to be covering a listener's question, but before we get on to that, it's been a serious week of rain here, certainly here, and I think across the whole of Ireland. And strangely high temperatures in the last day or two. Went out for a walk early this morning. And like we're into early November, and I had a t-shirt and a hoodie on, and this like it was really hot. And just checking the temperature in the car early on, 17 degrees. Just felt kind of balmy, which is it's really strange for this time of the year, and just so much rain falling with it. So it's it's definitely a strange time weather-wise. It's it's a good time, I suppose, for the the grow long because all of that, all of those seeds are getting nice temperatures, there's been no real cold yet, and they're growing quite well. So that's good. And I know uh I need to do uh kind of an update on that very, very soon. I know certainly some of the stuff in my polytunnel needs to be potted on, some of it needs to be moved to the next stage, so I definitely need to cover that very, very soon. Hopefully the rest of you guys are getting on well with your with your grow along. Um, but as I say, weather-wise, it's been it's been quite good. Generally speaking, still loads of harvest. I'm still getting lots of tomatoes. I don't know if anyone else is, but lots of tomatoes from the polytunnel and uh yeah, lots, lots of harvest still, so it's it's kind of going really, really, really good, uh, except for the last week, which has just been so so wet. Um it's probably going to slow up bare root season a little bit that high temperatures because we've had no frost, and obviously there's a little bit of frost needed to kick plants into dormancy. But nonetheless, it's uh yeah, it's a it's an interesting November so far, and end of October. So yeah. But this week it's a listener's question, and it's a it's a really good one. It's an interesting one, and it it's something that comes up quite regularly, but I think it's kind of important to to delve into it, and it and it is something, as I say, a situation that develops in in public in public spaces and also in people's gardens. And I can certainly, you know, when we get into the question, you know, I can set certainly see some similarities between what this listener is having and discussions this listener is having and some that I'm having myself. So I'm gonna read out the question and then get into kind of the answer. And there's it's quite a it's it's an email, lot quite a long email, so I'll just go through it. I've listened to the podcast for almost a year now and learning lots of good info to improve my gardening knowledge. The podcast is really good. You're doing a nice job of bringing accessible gardening information in nice bite-sized chunks at relevant times throughout the year with good variety of guests and topics. Episode 300 will be a big achievement in the coming weeks. Yeah, yeah, that was actually last week, yeah. And I hope you get a chance to celebrate it. So um yeah, I'm not so good at celebrating those things. I probably should because episode I when you think about it, episode 300 is it's quite a milestone. Uh each of the episodes is you know, they're relatively long. They're typically kind of packed with information, actionable stuff that you can do at home. So yeah, I guess uh I should be celebrating it, but uh so far I haven't, but hopefully. So I know you're happy to receive questions, so hopefully you're okay with me sending you this one. Definitely, yeah, keep any questions that you have. They're always great, they're always great platforms for an episode, you know, a question or a discussion point. And as I said before, whenever somebody is you know asking questions or having a discussion point like this, it all there's always somebody else that's in the same boat. So answering it does help other people. So I think it's yeah, it's great. Keep those questions coming. So over the past year I've been trying to build a garden to support biodiversity at our new house in County Galway. In brackets, it just says north of the county and when it well inland from the coast. Although my wife has serious doubts about it because it looks messy. I'm new to this and learning bits as I go. So I can relate to that bit and I'll explain why where my wife thinks certain aspects of what I do here are messy as well. But I can definitely I can understand that conversation, and I've had that conversation, so I can I can yes, I can understand what's happening. Uh here's a brief feel for the progress so far. Last last winter I planted a mix of around 15 native tree whips and a short stretch of white thorn hedge. I have the dig partially done for a wildlife pond, and then in brackets, hopefully to be able to swim in it. Um, but it'll be next year before I get back to that. I've let the grass grow to a meadow in an area approximately 50 by 20, that's a big area, last summer and this summer, and cutting and removing it in the autumn time. But as it was a newly planted lawn initially, the wildflowers haven't really started to establish yet. I think it'll take a few more years. I think it'll take a few more. I think I have a few more this year than last year, as in there's a few more wildflowers in it. Sorry. Last winter I aggressively scarified a couple of patches and sold the saw the wildflower mix with yellow rattle from from Sandro. Uh I learned about Sandra from your podcast, and the yellow rattle came up in a reasonable amount, so hopefully next summer it'll be better. I want to bring in some early season colour and want to pick the best options for nature that I can. I have some bluebells ready to go in and I'm happy with them as they are native. I've considered a few other obvious spring choices like snowdrops, daffodils, crocus, allium, and because they're not native, I'm wondering if there's better options to pick. Could you give any suggestions for early spring colour flowers that are native and add to biodiversity? I appreciate it. I appreciate any pointers on this. Keep up the good work. Thank you very much, Pori. That's uh yeah, very thanks for the message, firstly. And the question, as I say, the question is one that I can definitely relate to. So um I mentioned previously that I have a wildflower meadow at the front, it's a native Irish wildflower meadow. I it was a lawn area. I started with you know removing the grass and then sewing into that in May. Three years now, so four years next May. And I've mentioned this before, any of the episodes talking about wildflowers, any of the courses that I've done talking about wildflowers, the the the picture of a wildflower meadow is you know, that's the thing that people visualize. And it's really important to be aware that that picturesque meadow look it really only it really only is looks like that for about maximum three months in the year. So say for example my meadow, I have, and I'll come to the bulbs in a minute, they're they're important in this conversation as well. But just in terms of that full picture, full colour wildflower meadow, the the meadow will look brilliant from about middle of April through to the middle of July thereabouts, and at that point, like there will be flower, there'll definitely be flower, but there'll be a hell of a lot of seed heads that are gone over. And if you're to look at that meadow in, as I say, middle of April through to the end of end of June, middle of July, it will look fantastic, and it will change during that period. So, for example, my meadow was is heavily dominated by ragged robin in one of those months, and it has that mass of pink, and it just looks absolutely class. The oxidaisy has its month in the sun, then after that, and then there's other months where you have you know a variety of things. There's always going to be flower there from in, and I'm talking about my meadow here, from probably March time through to essentially end of September, middle of October. But in many people's eyes, that meadow looks untidy for definitely when when when you're leaving the seed heads there, so certainly from the middle of July, right through I've three-quarters of mine cut now. It should have been done six weeks ago, it's not. I'll I'll finalize finishing it uh tomorrow, that's the plan. Um but what when you're waiting to cut that, it does look, you know, to the to the eye, it looks untidy. So I can understand your wife saying that it looks messy, because in the typical what we expect, it it does and will look messy. And there's several elements here. Now, this is not the question. I I'm gonna get to your question about early colour in a minute, but I think it's really important, firstly, that you're doing a really good thing here where you're looking to support biodiversity in the garden, and you are looking at native and you are you know doing a lot of the right things, but it doesn't have to be all or nothing. So, what you can do is, and I'll I'll come specifically to the to your meadow in a minute, um, but there is more than one way to support. There's in fact there's several ways to support, and I would direct you to the All Ireland Pollinator Plan website, and I think that has even, you know, the plan has evolved and changed over the years, and the plan now mentions and points people towards I think a lot more choice in trees, shrubs, and wildflowers than it previously did. And there is no doubt that native that native plants are probably going to are going to be the most suitable or the most supportive of the native insects that we have here. There is no question about that. That's the reality. But that doesn't mean that the other plants, non-native plants, are not going to have some support. So while certain times of the year you might have native plants, you mightn't have native plants that you know look really good from the perspective of the aesthetic of a garden, so there is absolutely no harm in mixing them with you know natives with non-natives, bulbs with wildflowers, and creating a sort of a garden that's in harmony, that has something to offer all year round, offer to the pollinators all year round. Um, and that can be flower for food, it can be it can be, you know, for example, proper bug hotels, um areas like areas that can be used as havens for biodiversity, like your your wildlife pond that's coming up. And in doing this, by marrying the native and non-native plants, it's important to I suppose have an overall goal. And don't be afraid to mix plants to create areas that have huge beauty by using your perennial plants, you know, your standard perennial plants, and blending through them some really good native plants that will support biodiversity. And then you're starting to get the best of both worlds, you're getting that beauty that's going to, you know, that's going to make areas look really well and less messy, but you're also at the same time supporting biodiversity. And I think that's, you know, like if you look at some of the really best examples of of borders, you know, there's loads of them around the country, but really good perennial borders, they will have some native plant in there, they'll certainly have shrubs, uh, flowering shrubs, they will almost certainly have flowering trees, and all of those are adding a layer. So you're trying to layer these little supports for the insects and the pollinators and biodiversity. And don't just think in terms of you know bees or or pollinators, think about the wider, the wider eco wider ecosystem in your garden. And I think by doing that and by discussing that and being clear about what the vision is overall for the garden, that this is a garden that I want and we want to support biodiversity. We want it to look beautiful for ourselves, but we also want to support biodiversity at the same time, and that's very, very much achievable. So that's a kind of an overview specific to this area. So 50 by 20, and as I've said before, this this was an area that was initially set as a loan. And I mentioned on the podcast before when you're establishing um looking to establish a wildflower meadow, the All-Ireland Pollinator Plan, which is you know, there's a brilliant website there with so many resources, and I definitely, Porry, I would go look at that website just to give you some, you know, it'll give you plant lists, actual plant lists that you can just go and say, right, oh yeah, I see I see what they're talking about here. And you have all those lists lists for shade, lists for uh wet areas, you know, trees, perennials, everything, bulbs to hold you back. So that's it, that's a great place to go and visit. And you can start to formulate your ideas there. But when you're creating a wildflower meadow that has been just in lawn, and the all all-eryl and pollinator plan says don't mow, let it grow. And as I've said before, I totally agree with that concept. If it's an area that hasn't been kept as a lawn previously, if it has been kept as a lawn previously, you do not have the seed blank there of wildflowers, they're just not there. Whereas if you're in an area that you know might be might not have been kept or maintained as a lawn, generally speaking, down low, there will be these you know plantains, achilleas, all of these that are just not coming to the fore because they've been mowed tightly over time. But if it hasn't been you know treated with anything to take out any weeds and so on, then they're gonna be there. And as soon as you stop mowing and let it grow, the plantains, the clovers, the achillias, they're all gonna come to the floor, floor. But in this scenario, they're not there, the seed bank is not there. So you've done the right thing in terms of putting in your your yellow rattle, and that will reduce the vigour of the grasses, but at the same time, there isn't going to be a seed bank there for you to for wildflowers to really start coming through. That's going to take a good while. So again, you're doing the right thing by adding that, but I can understand from your wife's perspective why she's looking out here, and basically what she's looking at is a meadow, but it's not a wildflower meadow, it's like an agricultural meadow because that's what it is. It's grass predominantly. Now, this year, you know, your your email says that a few more flowers have come in, and that will continue. As you remove the grass, you'll you'll reduce the nutrient levels in the in that soil, and over time, certain seeds will start to seed into it, and they will improve, but it's going to be a slow process process. But what I would say is that document or highlight that that's what this is. You know, you're you're trying to build something here. If it was in a public space, I would always recommend that people put up a sign and say, listen, this area is being enhanced for biodiversity. So just verbalize that. Um this is not still not, I still haven't answered your question, but I want to I want to kind of set the tone. And it is, I can understand as I say, my wife looked out and says this is messy looking. But what you're looking to do is show the benefit that is there. So cut paths through it. Like 50 by 20 is a big area, and I don't know the shape of it, but I would cut paths through it if you can cut out a seating area in it so that you can both sit out there, immerse yourselves in it. When eventually these flowers start to come, you can sit in the biodiversity area, you can feel and see all this insect life, and like from our perspective here, uh my my youngest girl Emmy, she absolutely is insect crazy. So, in the you know, in the the months when that wildflower meadow is flowering and flowering well, she will be out there walking around in her bare feet with pathways cut through it. There's uh a kind of a seating area in the middle of it, and she will be out there looking at bees, looking at bugs, picking up things, gathering flowers, and that's what it's about. So you're creating that connection. So if you're able to create pathways through it, I don't know if any of you do do yoga, but cut out a zone in the middle of it, practice your yoga out there on a good day, and now you're starting to become connected to the space. Okay, um, and I think that's really important in terms of I suppose selling what you're trying to do. So it's brilliant what you're trying to achieve, but if everyone is not on that, you know, on that journey or or not able to see the fruits of that journey yet, then it's important to sort of show you know why this is important and show that it is working, but also start to add things, and this is where we're going to get on to your question, start to add things that will beautify this space while still supporting biodiversity. Now it's a long ramble to a certain extent, but the the purpose of it is to is to I suppose show people you know what it is you're trying to do, and then try and build their connection to it and your connection to it, and then it becomes much easier over time to develop out this further. Um, but it doesn't have to be just you know a meadow. So what I'm going to come on to here is that that 50 by 20 space, cut your pathways through it, cut out your yoga area or your seating area in it, right? That's step one. You're already taking away the grass, so that's going to be reducing the nutrient levels. You already have your yellow rattle in there, that's going to continue, hopefully, to you know weaken the grass as well. Some wildflower seeds are going to seed in there over time, but it is going to take a little bit of time, so let's help it out a little bit. To go back to your original question, the bulbs that you mentioned, by all means get those in there. Don't worry that they're not native. So put in your daffodils, put in your crocuses. You already have your native bluebells, they're going to be brilliant support to biodiversity in the early months. Um, I would definitely be adding in some muscaris. If you have an area that's near there, that's shaded, I would put in some wooden enemies. Um a brilliant one which is going into my own meadow, uh hopefully over the next month, is Camasias. And the reason Camassias are so so good in a meadow is that well, two reasons. Number one, they're really well able to compete with grasses. So at this point in time, you have a lot of grasses, so they're really well able to keep compete with grasses. They're quite tall, so they will stand up above any kind of grass canopy that is there, even if it's a short one, and they'll flower above it. But more importantly, they're they'll look really beautiful at a time of the year where not much else looks good. So if you're able to get a lot of camacias, now you can build it up over time, you don't have to do it all in one go. But if you can put some comasyas in, if you are you know starting this year with some camasias, put them to the front, put them to the side that's most visible, so that you know, in a couple of months' time, when they're starting to flower, that's the first thing that you know you see and your wife sees as you look out. So you're you're starting to add this instant colour through that meadow. Your bluebills are already going to be there. Definitely, when they start flowering, they will support biodiversity. And you know, get out there and have a look, and you will find that there'll be bees on those, that's certain at that time of the year. Uh so don't be afraid of the in terms of the native and non-native at that stage. Use any of those bulbs. And again, to to reference the All-Irland Pollinator Plan, they mention all of those on their website and you know support the use of all of those. And they're going to beautify the area, they're going to make it interesting, they will add, there will be a food source for you know early pollinators coming out, and they're they're going to spread and naturalize in that in that wildflower area, and they're going to look brilliant at a time of the year where there isn't anything else looking good in that area. So by all means, lash all those in. The other thing to think about within that area is to add some possibly some trees into it. So if you think about it again, that area's relatively big, 100 square metres, and you know, all the flowers down low, so the interest is all down low. But there'll be nothing to stop you getting some really beautiful trees. And these can be native, they don't have to be they don't have to be, they can be native trees. Like, for example, you get some really nice crab apples, but there's also some cultivated really special um crab apple trees. You know, I've mentioned them on a previous podcast. Uh in my meadow, I have Malus Evereste, which is a beautiful uh tree. It's quite young now, so I've not seen the full benefit of it yet, but that's a fabulous tree. And again, if that's planted, you know, towards the front or towards the area that's easily viewed, then come springtime, this beautiful flowering tree will be looking back towards the house. So that's the first thing that's catching your eye. It's not the you know it's not the messy meadow as such. And if you were able to plant some of those, um crab apple tree, a willy a willow tree, brilliant. Willow trees are brilliant for pollinators. Those, you know, those uh little furry catkins that you get in the springtime, they're brilliant for pollinators. So again, you're supporting biodiversity, but it's not you know in your flowering sense, it's it's it's in a different way. Uh and so a willow tree would look brilliant there and would support biodiversity in a different way. The likes of the Sorbus Joseph Rock, so a mountain ash tree, again, a native tree, brilliant for you know, brilliant for um autumn colour. You have your berries in the autumn time, so that's going to be feed for the birds. So there's so much, you know, trees can add so much there that at this time, and they're gonna add a different dimension to it. You know, you're not looking at this short meadow just with grass that looks untidy, you're adding a dimension to it, another height, another size, uh, but also supporting biodiversity and beautifying at the same time. So that's worth considering. Another thing worth considering to go into that meadow is the native primula, so primula vulgaris, um brilliant early season flower as well. It's not so much of a pollinator support, like it you will see some pollinators, some insects on it, but it's more it's more a beautiful plant to add to your meadow in in this first spring colour. And at that time of the year, there'll be very little else flowering, and they'll continue to flower, they'll multiply really, really well across the meadow. So after a period of a couple of years, you will start to see hundreds of them across the meadow, and they'll flower, and now you're getting different periods of flower looking beautiful, um increasing the I suppose the aesthetic of the area, but also still sticking to you know your your main goal, which is supporting biodiversity within the garden. Um, so there's some good options. So all of your your your typical bulbs, premier vulgaris, add in a couple of trees that really have you know a beautiful look, like as I say, crab, apple, sorbus, joseph, rock, any of those type trees. And now you're adding multidimensional things to it. Then you mentioned about the the wildlife pond that potentially you'd be able to swim into that would be fabulous. If you're going down that route, um definitely have a look at you know, a couple of weeks ago we had uh Ashley Ashley Dowling on uh the pond girl Ashley and check out her episode, check her out on Instagram, send her a message, ask her for advice on on plants and native. She's very big on supporting biodiversity within a wildlife pond. And you know, by all means incorporating a swimming, you know, swimming element into that would will be brilliant. Again, have a look at what will look well in that area. So allow it to be beautiful, which it can be, but also to support biodiversity. So there is there is always this, you know, if you're if you're really into supporting biodiversity, there is this thing where people just let the gardens go wild. And that will look messy and it will look untidy in the you know it's nobody can say any difference. That's that's what it will look like. But there is ways of adding so much support to biodiversity while also having beautiful gardens, and you know, I think that's the aim and that's what you should be trying to do here. So when that section gets added, beautify that pond, put the right plants into it. Um, as I said, check out experts like Pondgar Ashley, and you know, she'll direct you in the uh point you in the right direction in terms of planting and and all that sort of thing. Then out from that, there's nothing to stop you putting in really good perennial borders that will look beautiful. So they're gonna, you know, they're gonna satisfy that aesthetic part where we want this garden to look nice and we want it to look presentable and we want it to look beautiful and all those things. But also on the flip side of that, we want it to support biodiversity. And those things, those two things don't have to be on opposite sides, they can be completely merged together and joined together, and they can work really well together. So start to maybe look at that as an option as well to create beautiful perennial borders, especially in the view, in the viewing line of where you're looking out of your house or where you're sitting, maybe, and adding a lot of colour into that that will you know that will support biodiversity and so on. Um other plants that can be added in, you know, or even even if it comes to the the you know, this wildflower area, if it's taken a little bit too long to establish, why not just remove the sod in a certain in a certain part of it and actually plant in something like a cat mint? You know, if you had a say a seating area or a yoga area in the middle of it, get take out a sod, plant in some cat mint in there, let that establish, let that be be really beautiful and also supporting biodiversity, but have it uh included into the meadows. So, you know, add things together, mix the the wild or native plants with the with the non-natives and you know beautify areas while also supporting biodiversity. Uh I know I've kind of gone around the topic a lot, but when it comes to your your specific question around early season colour, I would be looking at all of the bulbs that you mentioned, and don't be afraid that they're not native, they will be perfectly good. uh muscaris really good add in those wooden enemies if you can add in those comassias definitely from the point of view of the aesthetic they're going to be superb they compete really well in a in a grass area and they're just brilliant at they're brilliant at I suppose adding a little bit of height a little bit of little bit a little bit of colour at a height within the meadow so comassias definitely add as well the other thing that I'm possibly in the garden already so it's not specific to to Pawry's garden but herbs are so good for you know for biodiversity uh for pollinators and so on but they're also multifunctioning in in that they're superb you know for medicinal purposes for um culinary purposes and so on so if you can create even a herb border all the usual herbs you know lemon balm sage mint borridge rosemary organo they're superb for biodiversity they're very good for culinary use they're very good for medicinal use so multifunctional look relatively well and will support what biodiversity so again just another another uh layer to add in you can add in some really interesting sort of pieces within the garden then like uh wild um wildflower wild bird feeders um nesting boxes bug hotels things like that that look good create a little bit of an interest are genuinely supporting biodiversity but also have you know as I say architecturally they look good and you know all of that is supporting a wider wider system and I think that's important you know when you're especially if you're trying to get people to come on the journey with you you need to show them you need to show them the wins you need to show them what's working, what's not uh explain why we're doing this, why we're doing that but also you do need to you know from your own point of view even add some beauty into it because the more the best gardens that I've seen for biodiversity have so many levels to it. It isn't just a wildflower level meadow. It'll have bird feeders it'll have you know areas where different bees might might nest it could be a sand mound it could be a dead hedge you know anything like that that's adding another dimension cut paths through your meadows put in a a yoga area and all of those things are just creating little little bits of interest so you can have a garden that is multidimensional. It has a little bit of the untidy the little bit of the unkept a little bit of a wild area even some nettles and things in it and that will be supporting biodiversity and then side by side with it you have these flowering trees side by side with that you have your perennial borders and everything is adding layer after layer of support and habitat for for biodiversity and now what you're creating is you're not creating a wildflower meadow in its you know in its singular form you're creating an ecosystem which is your own garden and I think that's the kind of aim some of that information is not specifically aimed at par because I don't know the full the full situation but um you always see that when you're trying to bring up bring other people on on the journey with you. If you see it in public spaces for an area's left and is not mowed you get the initial clamour of oh that looks so untidy but if you put up some signage saying what's happening here and give that a little bit of time then people come on that journey with you if you're able to show you know a poster and again the all iron pollinator plant supports a little bit you know with bits of this but if you were to put up a poster showing that this is the 20 insects that we can find in this wildflower meadow and that creates a bit of a story a bit of a talking point and it's easier to sell that you know what some people might call an untidy look when the picture and the story is clear to everybody. So yeah as I say that m some of that doesn't you know doesn't apply to to Parry or may not apply to Parry's garden. I know it certainly has applied here where I've had to you know explain why this area at the front of the house looks so untidy you know in the traditional sense at certain times of the year and I suppose I've been lucky in in in ways in that that that meadow is just absolutely alive with bee with bees it's alive with you know birds particularly bullfinches have come in for the first time and you know as a family we like looking out and seeing those but if we didn't have them I think I'd get it hard to sell this as you know a worthwhile step because you know as I say in the traditional side it looks untidy for a lot of the year but when it's bringing in these pollinators these butterflies these moths in the night time the the birds that are hanging off the the knapweed eating the seed heads for months and months on end that's when you start to see that it isn't just you know uh something that you look at for two months it's it's an overall thing so yeah I've rambled on a little bit I hope I haven't gone too far off the point if there's anything that I didn't clear up fully for you porrig just shoot me another message and and I'll I'll I'll answer you there. But certainly any of the bulbs that you mentioned you know in terms of adding colour to that space that 50 by 20 space that is predominantly still grass definitely all those bulbs you mentioned muscaris camasias particularly will be really beneficial because they're tall they're gonna stand up and they're striking you know they've a striking flower on them and they will look really well so all of those then add in some higher you know the likes of a few trees into it that'll look look good that'll have a little bit of longevity they're gonna look good for a long period of time and yeah hopefully that hopefully that gives you I suppose adds another dimension of colour to that and then it's easier to I suppose sell the story and maybe it won't look as messy when you get this colour through it. So as I say I hope that answers the question lots of interesting episodes coming up the Christmas gifts for gardeners one is coming up uh should be out on the 20th of November I think uh looking forward to that one still to be recorded but definitely looking forward to it there's um it's gonna be interesting to I always like that episode it's always good fun to see different people's lists um so still looking for a male listener to come on so if any of you guys are out there and you want to come on that that episode shoot me a message and it'll be recorded over the next week week or 10 days at the latest uh so hopefully somebody wants to come on uh we'll definitely get get a male and a female listener anyway for sure so looking forward to that one but that's been this week's episode answering Parik's question on Wildflower Meadows hope it answers the answers the question Parik glad you're enjoying the podcast and thank you very much for that message and that's been this week's episode thanks for listening and until the next time happy Gary