Master My Garden Podcast
Master My Garden podcast with John Jones. The gardening podcast that helps you master your own garden. With new episodes weekly packed full of gardening tips, how to garden guides, interviews with gardening experts on many gardening topics and just about anything that will help you in your garden whether you are a new or a seasoned gardener. I hope you enjoy.John
Master My Garden Podcast
EP304 - Matt Future Forests Chats Bareroot. From Hedging To Heritage Apples: What Irish Gardeners Are Planting Now
Cold weather set the stage and bare root season is off to a flying start. We bring Mattie from Future Forests back on the mic to share straight-talking, field-tested advice on hedging, trees, and the edible surge that’s reshaping Irish gardens. If you’ve ever wondered which whip size actually makes sense, when staking is non‑negotiable, or why those tall instant hedges sometimes flop, this conversation is your blueprint for smarter planting.
We dig into the fruit boom: the apple that almost never fails (Katie), the plum pair that keeps winning (Victoria and Jubilee), and the pear trio that finally fixes pollination headaches (Conference, Beth, Concord). Soft fruit gets its due too—raspberries, currants, blueberries—and a timely case for damsons as the resilient, flavour‑rich choice for trickier sites. Quince demand is spiking, heritage apples are pulling people online, and more buyers want honest descriptions that flag disease risks before they commit.
Hedges are being rethought with a more resilient lens. Hawthorn leads for biodiversity and farm edges, beech and hornbeam anchor structure, and evergreen picks get a reality check. Portuguese laurel still impresses but shows mildew pressure in pockets; yew is underused and superb on good ground; Japanese privet is clean and dense; and griselinia holds up when pruned early enough to dodge frost damage. Along the coast, fuchsia hedges remain iconic and vigorous. We also trade notes on unusual trees—Caucasian wingnut, Zelkova, standout hawthorns—and why some beloved cultivars like Paul’s Scarlet no longer earn their keep.
Practical wins frame the whole chat: never plant a dry root, dip as you go, protect with stakes where needed, use mycorrhizal fungi to speed establishment, mulch to lock in moisture, and be ready for that now‑predictable April or May dry spell. We round out with perennials and ferns for texture and shade, plus a thoughtful look at native provenance and sourcing balance across Irish and trusted European growers.
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Until next week
Happy gardening
John
How's it going everybody and welcome to episode 304 of Master My Garden Podcast. Now, this week's episode, I'm delighted to be joined by a previous guest of the podcast, and I had a look today to see when I last had Matty from Future Forests on, and it was a long, long, long way back, December 2020, and it was episode 46, so just in the in the very, very early days of the podcast. So Future Forests is a nursery and garden centre in near Bantry in West Cork. And it's one that is loved by Irish gardeners, I suppose, on a number of fronts, has great selection, but always backed up by supreme advice, I suppose, and unusual stuff and your your normal everyday stuff. One of their biggest periods, as I mentioned last week, is bare root planting, and we're getting into that season now, so I said I'd bring Matty back on, and we're gonna chat all things bare root and we're gonna go wherever the conversation goes around different plants and categories and see what has changed around trends maybe since we spoke a couple of years ago. I hadn't realized it was that length ago. But Matty, you're very, very welcome back to Master My Garden Podcast.
SPEAKER_02:John, thank you. Uh I'm actually shocked as well to imagine that was five years ago.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, crazy, yeah. It doesn't seem like it actually.
SPEAKER_02:It really doesn't seem like it, but I think I think that's what kind of happens, isn't it? You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I know there was a few bizarre years in between and and whatnot, but uh yeah, it doesn't really feel like that long ago since since we were having that conversation. But yeah, uh shocked today to see it was episode 46 and it was December 2020. Wow, yeah. Wow, yeah. So I I'm sure lots has changed and not much has changed, but just to as I said, future forest is kind of loved by Irish gardeners, you know. The and I know you in in that last episode a couple of years ago, you you mentioned the sort of origin story of it. Uh so we mightn't go into that too much, but um one of the things you're synonymous with is I suppose your advice, your your range of plants, and even within a particular plant you'll have different sizes, which you know, which which people seem to like. So just give us a kind of a brief overview of of future forest as it is today, I suppose.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I suppose I thank you for mentioning the advice part. I think it's something that I always try and drill into the team, especially what I would call the front of house team or or anyone in the office, is that always you're always trying to give the best advice because uh above everything, whatever you sell to people, you want it to grow for them.
SPEAKER_01:You know?
SPEAKER_02:So, like if someone says to me, they're like, Oh, we're we want we want 500 beach, and our first question would be, look, what's the soil like? You know, rather than going, we have the plants, you can have them, but just just checking, just asking people what uh what's what's their situation, are they coastal, what's growing around them? So if we can get the good info from the customers who are trying to buy from us, then the plants we sell to them should do well for them. And then all around that's a success story, yeah. But um we do sell, and I'd say maybe other places do as well, but you know, particularly the hedging uh and the native trees, we would do in different sizes. So everything from 40 60s, which would be one to two foot in the old money, um 6090s, 9120s, one 2150s, four to five foot is kind of the highest we would go on what we would call hedging or whips.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and we would do that on the main guys, as I said, the hedging and certainly the trees as well. You wouldn't always have every grade, but it gives people the opportunity. People who are maybe on a budget or have time can plant the one to two foots, they're not gonna cost half as much. Um, give them a few years, they'll have caught up. Generally, I feel people who are planting four to five foots or 120, 150s need something a bit more instant, you know. But quite often, if it's an exposed area, they they might need a stake or something to go with that as well, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, interesting you say that actually, because I was uh driving through Carl Town the other evening, and there's how would you put it? It's nice planting, but it's certainly unusual. I'm not quite sure exactly what they're trying to capture. So it basically takes in uh a lead up to a roundabout and a sort of a between between two curbs in the centre of the road, there's a little bit of planting, leads into a big roundabout. They've created some kind of a like mounds on it. I'm not exactly sure what they're trying to capture there, and then it leads out to another sort of dual carriage, short dual carriageway, I guess. And right in the centre of that is a huge amount of planting, and they've gone for huge, maybe eight-foot-tall taxis bacatas. And I passed the other evening, and every one of them were blown over sideways. Um, which was as I say, it's a strange looking planting anyway. Lovely plants gone into it, but I'm not exactly sure of the the concept or the design that they're trying to that they're trying to show. But it was a pity to see these now. I'm sure they get staked and fixed up, but uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Just it it might be one of those designs that has to settle in for a year or two, maybe before uh it becomes apparent.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it looks like something uh it looks like they're trying to uh it what does it look like? It looks a little bit like a rolling mountain in the middle of this roundabout. Uh and and the and they're kind they've put some kind of uh gorse plants into it and stuff like that. So I'm not exactly sure what the and then when you come out the other side, it's it's the taxis picata and some nice underplanting, all nice plants, but it just I had the the the whole concept I'm not quite getting. It's lost on you at the moment, it's lost on me at the minute, anyway. But uh no, just uh when you're saying about the staking, so obviously instant hedging is it's you know it's it suits certain people and it's necessary in certain places, but definitely they will need needs need staking because yeah, I I think if if you've got shelter and you've got the budget, you know, you can get away with planting bigger stuff.
SPEAKER_02:But like I would say I'll just pick out maybe beach or horn bean, which would be two non-natives, but hedging that we would sell quite a bit of. And of all the grades, the 6090s would be would far outstrip any of the other grades in terms of what we sell.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And I think 4060s people are like, maybe it's a bit too small, and the other ones, again, you're getting into that territory of of maybe a bit too big, might need support. So 6090 seems to be the most popular for that type of hedging anyway.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and definitely, and like from from the point of view of looking ahead to next April, May, if you look back to April, May this year, where it was so dry for that period of time, like big stuff is gonna like everything is gonna need minding in that first year. But if you've if you've big plants with you know huge top growth, small root balls or or root zones underneath, it's gonna need a lot of minding and and watering, particularly if we do get you know that dry snap, which we typically do, you know, in one of the two, one or two of the months between sort of April and and up into July, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, you you've you've absolutely nailed it. There's a there's an absolute definite pattern of dry spell. I'm gonna say, in the last, you know, in the last 10 years, it's getting fairly consistent, usually around April or May, when the bare root plants have really need that watering, or even potted plants, any plants, really.
SPEAKER_00:Any plant.
SPEAKER_02:Uh I often think of young bare root plants that are really the roots are just going out, they need that moisture, they need that bit of care. And there's still a little bit of that feeling. Sure, it's Ireland. Once you stick it in the round, it's grand, you know. Um but it's something we're we're we're well aware of. We're getting those dry spells. Um, like even here, just in the nursery, we've just invested in in tables. Uh the I I can't even remember the proper name for them, but they're they're like water tables, really. Um so it that's really for the potted plants. But we we are spending so much people hours on on watering. Now, our site, if for anyone who comes down to us, they'll know we're at the side of a hill in West Cork. Um, you know, place was nearly grown out of a bog, really. But it's it's it's it's there's just levels everywhere. It's not it's not the place where you could just set up a big sprinkler system and walk away from it. Yeah, so we have to do a lot of, I'm gonna call it hand watering, even though we've got really good pressure and really good hoses and uh lances and all that sort of stuff. But it does take a long time, especially when you get those dry spells. Um so yeah, we've just invested in in these tables. So um uh uh quite a uh quite an investment for us, and we were only just starting to put them out. So I'm hoping that'll really start to pay dividends um uh when we get those dry spells.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Okay, so to get to get back to the plants, I suppose there's a few things I want to kind of talk about. So obviously bare root season has kicked off, really helped by the good cold snap last week that has sort of turned plants back into dormancy, and now lifting is starting in earnest. Um tell us about what you're doing in bare root. Obviously, you know, you have all the usual, you mentioned some of the hedging there and that, but sort of run through the categories, run through you know what's popular, and what I want to kind of come around to at some point is what has changed in in the last five years in terms of you know people's choices or even reliability of certain things. For example, I I covered uh an episode answer the listeners listener's question a couple of weeks ago, and it was on hedging. And Portuguese laurel was one that I spoke about, and it's one that I've liked over the last number of years, uh, mentioned it a good few times, and now I'm seeing some vulnerability coming into that plant, you know, um disease mildew, particularly over the last few years. And yeah, just to talk about those type things.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Let's chat about your your your sort of stalwart first and what you're doing in Beirut. I know you do everything from hedging to trees to fruit, fruit brushes, fruit trees, and so on.
SPEAKER_02:We do carry a big range, there's no doubt about it. And the the online side of it is very important to us. And we're very rural, we're we're we're a long way away from any real big urban areas. So having a strong online presence means it actually also gives us the opportunity to get that range in. Because I think having the range uh makes more people come to us, yeah. Because as you say, someone could say, look, I want I want a hundred hawthorn for a native hedge, I want a mixed native hedge, or I want I want to plant an orchard, I want to plant nut trees, willows. I mean, we we we do a big range. I suppose in terms of what's changed, um even five years ago it would have been becoming big for us, but now fruit is a massive part of our business.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:So bare root fruit trees, apples, pears, damsins, plums, gauges, small bit of cherries, but mainly apples. We we we sell we sell an awful amount of apples, and we'd have a quite a big uh heritage range as well. Um we've always we've always had the heritage range, especially since uh the seed saver started them up in Clair. Yeah, they they really got them going, but uh another grower uh developed them for us as well. So we've we've always been offering maybe 30 varieties of of heritage apples, um as well as as well as all the the the regulars and the and the um and the usual ones. So fruit has become massive for us, and I've even seen a pattern where I feel that web sales even slow down when our fruit range gets lower. So I think people would go, yeah, we'd like to get some fruit and we'll get X and Y while we're at it.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Um I think it's a bit of a driver, yeah. I mean, compared to what we were selling 10 years ago, there's no comparison. There really is no comparison. Um and I mean on other levels, you mentioned Portuguese laurel. I love Portuguese laurel, I think it's a fantastic uh hedging plant. We we've actually stopped selling common laurel. So we we were getting a lot of feedback from people about being invasive and being hard to control, and so we were listening to a lot of that. I'm not a big fan of common laurel anyway. So we took a decision there about a year ago, maybe a year and a half ago, to stop selling it. So we stopped selling that and we we are now selling, I suppose, more Portuguese laurel, but I was a bit worried to hear what you were saying. I haven't I wouldn't say I've seen those issues myself yet.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, but yeah, it's funny because uh it would have been like if three or four years ago it was the hedge that I was saying was it had everything, you know, in terms well, ever everything except for maybe the the biodiversity element of it. But it had the lovely green leaf, the the nice colour, the evergreen, quick growing, hardy, you know, it had everything ticked every box and easy to manage, you know. Yeah, easy to manage, not not a heavy thing to cut, yeah. It's very a great edge, and and still is. And I've just slightly put a caveat beside it myself over the last year or two, and it it's not all over the country. I know that for certain because listeners are messaging in afterwards, but in this in the Midlands, there is definitely an issue, and it seems to be building around Middle Jew. And generally speaking, they'll grow out of grow out of it, but they can look a little bit they lose their their nice vibrant look for a little while when it's happening. Yeah, okay. Uh and it and I know for sure it's in the Midlands because I've seen it in in lots of different hedges and I've heard some nurseries talking about it in in the sort of Midlands area.
SPEAKER_02:Uh well that's that's news to me. And what what usually happens is as soon as you hear it, I'll I'll probably get a phone call from a customer now tomorrow going, oh, what's up with my Portuguese laurel, you know? Uh as these things usually happen. But look, you you have to keep an eye on everything like that, don't you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You really got to watch what's what's working for people, what's what's not working for people, what's fair to sell to people. I mean, I remember years ago when I was getting contacted by customers about Escalonia.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And I was even went out to visit a couple of customers, and I was like, Did you spray near it? Or I'm not sure what's going on. And then of course you start to hear in dribs and drabs that of problems with it, you know. Um, and of course, Escalonia was one of those wonder hedges, you know. Yeah, um, it would grow from cuttings, beautiful flower, good by the sea. And I suppose we haven't sold that now, I'd say, in 15 years or something.
SPEAKER_00:You haven't sold it at all in in all.
SPEAKER_02:We've stopped selling it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and that and that the issue with that was fireblight, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_02:It's not fire blight, it's um it's it's just it's it's not fire blight, no, it's just some other kind of a disease. It gets a black spot and it starts to denude completely in in the winter and then can die off as well. So some people would have hedges that would come back in the summer, but it's that thing again of wanting to sell people something that we know is gonna work for them.
SPEAKER_00:Robust, yeah, robust, robust, you know. Yeah, and and funny enough, in this area, now mostly because we're we're inland and Escalonia, generally speaking, would be hugging the coast a little bit more than where we are. Um in this area, any of the Escalonia hedges that I know of are impeccable at the moment. So so maybe it's just you know, if if the pressure and the amount of them in a in a an area build up, um like Portuguese laurel is is everywhere around here, and is it because the pressure is building, you know, a lot of people have it, and then maybe because there's a lot of it, does it build up? It could be possibly, possibly, could be. Uh, but but to be honest, even though I've said there's a caveat beside it, Portuguese laurel is still on my list as one and was on the list a couple of weeks ago as one of the best hedges you can plant. So, yeah, I'm with you on that one. Yeah. Um a couple of years ago, I remember for sure that mixed hedges, mixed fruiting hedges, mixed biodiversity hedges were gaining in popularity. That has only continued upwards, I'm sure, since is that what you're seeing?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's still very popular. We do uh what we call a mixed wildlife fruiting hedge, and it would be all native species. Uh 60% hawthorn, and then 40% mix of other natives like hazel, gelder rose, spindle. Yeah, um, holly is usually potted, so people have to buy that separately if they want to put it in. Uh, but maybe dog rose, prunus paddus, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So I would say that's our most popular mixed hedge by by a mile. Um we do also offer what we call a permaculture hedge. And I think I said that to you the last day as well. And that's more everything in it, it's not well, we do put some natives in it. We like putting elder in it because we just we love elder so much, but it's everything in the hedge has a berry that you can either you know make is either edible or you can use it in some source. So be it you know, making jam or making something like that. So it would be aronia, would be a big one in it, um, amylantur, lemarchee would be another one in it, elder. We'd always put some hazel into it, um, autumn olive, eliagnus umbalata as well would be another one going into it. Uh so varieties like that, they both prove very popular. Um now I haven't I haven't made them available yet, because as you say, it's all starting. You know, we're we're we're we're gone from uh uh we're gone from a few weeks ago, as I was saying, like, how am I gonna keep everyone busy? to now kind of going, oh my god, how are we gonna manage everything? But as you say, the stock is being lifted, it's coming to me every week. We've big, big deliveries landing this week now. So after this week, we'll be able to make available some of those mixed hitches.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Um interested to hear because I know you mentioned fruit trees the last time we spoke a couple of years ago, and fruit trees were were popular, but I don't think they were they were you you didn't talk about them as being you know a huge category for you at the time. They were there and and you were doing them and and so on. But there obviously has been growth there and a change there. Um I suppose two questions. What do you think is driving that? Number one, uh, and also within that, you mentioned you had 30-ish uh heritage varieties and all the usual favorites. Maybe just talk about some of the you know, when it comes to apples, talk about some of the real robust stalwarts that you have within the within the range.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so uh my favourite apple, and I think probably one of the most reliable apples, and you'll probably know it yourself, is Katie.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, good one, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Or Katchje, which is its proper name, uh, Eastern European apple. That is it just hands down, it's so easy to grow. It's got massive disease resistance and and and just works really well. From from I'm gonna say the heritage apples, one of my favourites is one called Loch Tree of Wexford. And a lot of the heritage apples are kind of they're smaller apples, but this one is uh it's a it's a neater, but it's quite crisp and sweet, and I I'm a big fan of that one as well. Um in terms of plums, the old reliables are still the most popular. So Victoria Plum probably outstrips most of them. Um Jubilee, which would be kind of regarded as an improved Victoria, um, is also quite a good one, but it's just funny and have its people know the name of Victoria, um so they would always go for that. In pairs, it's the top three would definitely be Conference, Concord, and Beth. And I like when I have all three of them because as uh it was John McNamara from McDemara Fruit Nurseries told me years ago that they were the three best pairs for growing in an Irish environment, and I would I would go along with that. And even though conference and concord are technically self-fertile, those pairs are definitely better if they have a pollinating partner. And conference and concord will not pollinate each other. So if you have Beth in the mix that will pollinate both of them.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I hadn't I hadn't come across Beth. I know the other two, and I have Conference in the garden, but um yeah, Beth is a new one for me.
SPEAKER_02:Beth is a new one because some people will go on and they'll order Concord and Conference, and you're not you're not gonna get fruit every year, you know, because they're self-fertile, but not you know, not fully self-fertile. So if you kind of beth in the mix there, it will it will pollinate both of them back.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And what do you think is driving the the fruit growth?
SPEAKER_02:I I don't know. I mean, d dare I say that just I feel we've put a lot of work into the website, you know. We've put a lot of work into descriptions and getting fair descriptions about fruit. So like if there's an issue with a plant, we'll we'll we'll say it. You know? So is it prone like Cox's orange pippin'? You know, famous apple, but very disease prone, you know. And but we say that, you know. So I think as long as people are informed, um, and I think when you've got good information on the website, I think people have confidence. I'm I also of course now that I'm thinking about it, I think actually one of the biggest factors is one of the bigger factors is COVID. So during COVID, we had an absolute, as did nearly every garden center, we had an absolute explosion in sales. And because we were allowed to do online, online was absolutely massive for us, you know. So I think a lot of people who had never ordered plants online before suddenly were getting plants online and going, Do you know what they do turn up okay? Um they don't get destroyed in transit, you know. I planted them out, they're growing, they're producing. Um, so I think COVID gave a lot of certainly Irish customers confidence that you could buy online as well. So I think, you know, I could be wrong, but I think that would be a good big factor over the last few years.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but I think that I think there is natural growth in fruit at the moment for some reason. Um, people definitely like most people now seem to want to have or are trying to have some sort of edible plants in the garden, and uh there's there's definitely a push in that direction. Uh, you mentioned Cox's orange pippin'. Just I I had uh I grew Cock Cox's red pippin'. Oh and it's the first time, first time this year that I had fruit on it. It's only planted two or three years, not long. Um but it was I I would say it was the nicest apple I've ever eaten. Uh there was only a few on it, but it definitely definitely is a gorgeous apple.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, Cox is so famous for being tasty, like unbelievably tasty. Yeah. So if you can get good results from a cocks, or I presume that one's a cox sport, you know, um uh then if you're you're going to get tasty apples. Yeah, it's trying to keep the tree healthy without, you know, like we we don't spray down here or anything like that. We don't use any chemicals ourselves. So trying to give, as I said, varieties that are fairly robust, or if they're not, at least people know on the description on the website that that you could have challenges.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um, just to sort of go away from fruit now, um, and I know there is other edibles, other other edible plants that you're doing as well, bare root. Um, maybe just mention a couple of those and then we'll start setting.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we we would do we do the regulars, what we would call uh soft fruit, you know. So all your currants, your red currants, your white currants, your black currants, uh raspberries. We do raspberries, um, bare root raspberries in bundles. Um, we would do asparagus, we would do rhubarb. Um in terms of top fruit as well, I didn't mention we would do meddlers, actually, quince this year. My whole first batch of quints have nearly sold out. And and I even we're questioning why that has happened because other years you're kind of getting to March hoping the last of them will go, like you know, yeah, and already the first batch is nearly gone, which is very surprising.
SPEAKER_00:Um I've seen a good bit of talk lately on quints. Okay. Uh in relation to cooking, particularly.
SPEAKER_02:Um maybe that's it. Maybe there's been TV programs or something, but uh we were we were talking about it only two hours ago. We were like the the quint stock is nearly gone, which was uh which is unusual for the start of the year.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for this this stage, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but we would have other, you know, we'd also sell you know types of aronias, you know, logan berries, uh blueberries, we sell a lot of blueberries as well. Um uh other saw fruit as well. Um I didn't I mentioned plums and stuff on the top fruit, but damsins, damsons, of course, are a type of plum, yeah. Um, but they're always popular, and I can never seem to quite have enough of them. And I think I think people planting a dams in it just kind of takes you back to maybe something that might be growing in the ditch, but that's edible, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Um I think they're a little bit underrated as well, actually.
SPEAKER_02:They're well they're totally underrated, they're totally underrated. And if if you've got a garden where you're like the the conditions are a little bit challenging, you know, and I would always say that kind of damsons are probably the easiest to grow. Your common plums are probably after that, and then your gauges and your stuff would be, you know, they'd be needing a much better site, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the only the only thing about the damson is that it it grows quite big, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02:It's well it these are these are all grafted onto rootstock, you know. Or they're all on they're all on Saint Julien A, you know. Okay. They're named varieties of damsons, you know.
SPEAKER_00:So they're gonna stay, they're gonna stay relatively small then.
SPEAKER_02:They're gonna stay, yeah. Yeah, nearly all our plums are on Saint Julien A.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. And that's gonna that's gonna go to what size then, roughly?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I'm gonna off the top of my head, 12 to 14 foot with pruning.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. So not yeah, yeah, because it no, but damsons are super hardy and they're actually they're underrated from a taste perspective. So a nice damson will taste as nice as any plum, really, to be honest with you. So they're just they they're just seen as a little bit uh catching it at the right time, you know.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, yeah, like look, if people are into making jams or preserves or anything like that as well, then damsons are ideal.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure. Uh to move away from fruit, as I said, um what and we we'll come to we'll kind of come towards hedging in a minute, but trees-wise, what what have you got in trees? And obviously, native is still hugely popular, but you do a lot of a lot of other sort of unusual types as well. So maybe sort of run through some of those.
SPEAKER_02:God, off the top of my head now to think it's funny how I gave a garden talk there recently, and when you're handling trees all the time, what you think is kind of what you're used to, you don't realize that other people think is maybe a bit unusual, you know? Yeah, so so you you might catch me there to try and think of what what I've got that's that's a bit unusual. Uh I've got Caucasian wingnut this year, Terracaria fraxinifolia. Okay. Um, and I'm a big fan of that tree. We have one growing up the back, and it's a big, big, big tree, very majestic, um, and beautiful. I don't know if you're familiar with that one.
SPEAKER_00:No, I'm not, no.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so that's that's one that I've been struggling to get for a while, but um but have it now. Um I've only just sold out of Alness Spatii, um, and that is uh spates alder. That was developed by uh a famous nurseryman in Berlin, uh I think back in the 20s or 30s or something like that. But it's a beautiful alder. The leaf is extra big on it, and really long catkins that hang on the tree and stay for a long time. And again, we've got a few big ones out there, and it's so brilliant when people are in looking at a twig, going, God, what'll this do? You know, and you go, well, you look behind you there, do you see that thing, you know? Yeah, so I've all I always like that tree. Um Zelkova, Zelkova serata, yeah. Um a Japanese elm. Uh again, beautiful tree. I I do question, we've one here and it's growing a long time. If you Google it, the height is supposed to be up to 60 feet.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:But I've never seen one get that big. So I'm gonna have to do a bit more research into that. But it grows up into quite a vase shape. So You get great shelter um underneath ferns underneath it and stuff like that, you know. Um I planted one maybe about 12 years ago for a neighbor near his gate, and it did exactly what I hoped. It's kind of gone out over the over the entrance, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So that's that's that's another slightly unusual one. Um we'd have a range of parotias, which I wouldn't say would be wouldn't be incredibly unusual. Oh, Creteagus Splendens. So that's uh that's um uh it's an American hawthorn.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Extra big thorns, the berries are extra big on it, so it's Creteagas persimilius splendens. Um, but it doesn't have a hawthorn leaf. So it doesn't have your regular, your regular indented like we would have for Cretaegus monogana. So it's a much a bit more oval, um, but certainly not not as oval as the plum leaf hawthorn. But the autumn colour on it this year was absolutely unbelievable. It was like literally kind of shades of orange on the leaf. So I had them, and again, we have some of this stuff on the website, people don't really know it, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But anyone who visited when they saw the autumn colour, um and we had a really good autumn colour this year.
SPEAKER_00:Brilliant, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So that proved that proved popular, and I'm always a big fan of Crategus. I think our native one is probably my one of my favorite trees, but then there's lots of other Crategas out there. Yeah, and on a note of trends, we've stopped selling Crategus Paul Scarlet as well, because it's just one of those trees that and maybe it's down here, maybe it's because we're near the coast, but it drops its leaf so early, it tends to get leaf problems and like people dropping their leaves in June, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and interesting you say that now because I had one um had had one up until this spring. Um, it's planted 10 years, was growing brilliantly, was flowering brilliantly, was doing everything that I wanted it to do, and then for the last three years, as you said, dropping leaf in early in the year, yeah, possibly as early as June, and then you have this bear tree sitting there, still alive, but yeah, but with no leaf on it in June, July, and it looks looks terrible. And I and I tried you know various things. Um I tried natural fungicides, I tried seaweed, it got the best care and attention that it possibly could, and it still did the same thing, and it was driving me nuts, so I pulled it up this spring. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, there you go. Well, if if you couldn't manage to get it to success, you know. Yeah we were finding it. I was just getting feedback from people saying, God, it's looking terrible. And I finally had one lady who bought one as a memorial for her husband.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And I did say, look, it can be problematic, but oh, he loved that tree. And she called me a few months later, probably around July, going, Oh, it's looking terrible. And family came over, and I was like, Look, you know, look, let's let's see, can we choose something else? You know, yeah, and and and and we'll sort you out. But it was after that I said, Look, I've had enough of it. I don't have faith in it to be a good tree for people anymore. But they're they are Creteagas Levi Gatas, whereas all the other Criticas I'm talking about are different.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Um I'm ducking and diving here, but I'm gonna shoot back for a second. I covered an episode a couple of weeks ago on hedging as a as uh answering a listener's question. And afterwards, another listener messaged me, and rightly so, I didn't mention fuchsia in in um in the episode. And again, it's a little bit like it's a little bit like the Escalonia. Fuchsia hedges, there wouldn't be that many around here. We're inland, they're probably not as popular in this area, but I know in the likes of your area down there, fuchsia hedges would be very popular, I think. Uh, would I be right in saying that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, fuchsia is is actually the symbol when they were doing a big advertising campaign for West Cork X amount of years ago, fuchsia is the symbol they used for West Cork. So fuchsia is I'm gonna use the word rampant um down here, especially if you go out onto the onto the onto the headlands and onto the coast, you know. Um I wouldn't say like look, you know, would you say it's in a bad way because maybe is it out competing some native plants that could be there? But it it's certainly it's certainly by its nature likes to sucker, you know. Um but look, it's not it's not like it's nowhere in the league of Ponticum or Rhododendron Ponticum or any of these things where you'll see it popping up here, there, and everywhere. I just think where you plant it, be prepared that it's going to bush outcome a thicket.
SPEAKER_00:But it is it is a great hedge. And yeah, as I say, it's one that it's one that I omitted from the list, and it's more because I'm thinking local and I'm thinking of hedges, and I watch them as I'm driving around and I see some that are doing well, but I don't really see fuchsia around here. But I know when you go when you go towards the coast in all directions, you'll see fuchsia and it's a great hedge.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, if you if you if you come to West Cork, you'll see fuchsia everywhere.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, everywhere, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Especially near the coast. And look, it it's very popular, and and yeah, we sell a lot of it every year.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um to go back to the hedges uh you know, as we start to to head for the end here, what what is the most popular hedge at the moment that you're seeing?
SPEAKER_02:The most popular hedge every year is Hawthorne. Um now, obviously, there's schemes going, right? So those schemes are sucking up all the all all the all the Hawthorne that is there fairly quickly. Yeah. But even if the schemes aren't there per plant, Hawthorne would still probably be the most popular. And I think that's because obviously there's the mixed hedges, but we would also we'd be catering to the farming community and stuff like that as well. But outside of Hawthorne, I would say then the next most popular hedge is probably beech. Um and then followed by I mean, I'm a massive fan of Hornbeam. I I just think it is it's a hedge that's made for Ireland. It just it um it'll take heavy ground, it'll take poor soil. I have a fantastic hedge of it at home planted in the heaviest clay. You could nearly make make cups out of the clay, it's so bad. Right. Um but it's thriving in it. Yeah, so I think horn beam is is a very underrated hedge. So definitely. Yeah, we we would sell we would sell a good bit of horn beam, but yeah, beach would be good. Um yeah, I'd say there the we would sell a lot of hazel, you know, and whether that's going into just individual hedgerows, I don't know. But overall, at the end of the year, when we'd start looking at uh what have we what what we moved a lot of, hazel would be up there as well. And in terms of Evergreen, then Evergreen, uh a few years ago, it would have been it probably would have been common laurel. Um now I'm gonna say Portuguese laurel, which we were discussing. Uh I'm also quite a fan of Japanese privet, so Legustrum Japonicum, um, of which we would sell a bit. I can't always get as much as I want, but that would be popular. You, we would sell quite a good bit of you as well, you know, even though you'd want you.
SPEAKER_00:It's underused as well.
SPEAKER_02:It's underused, you'd want good ground. I think people are a little bit afraid of it for all the toxic reasons and stuff like that. Um, but we do sell we do sell quite a bit of it. Um cutoniaster franchettii is another, no, it's semi-evergreen. Yeah, so not fully evergreen, but semi-evergreen. But we would sell we would sell a fair shot of that as well. Um, I'm probably forgetting some real basics. Gristolinia. Yeah, it's kind of like marmite. People either hate it or like it, you know. Yeah. Um, but we would, yeah, look, uh yeah, we would sell we would sell a good bit of gristallinia as well, actually.
SPEAKER_00:So I don't know why the main Yeah, it's kind of hard to like you're you're right, it is like marmite. People either love it or hate it. I I don't know why you wouldn't like it. The colour I like the colour of it. Um people might think it's maybe a little bit washy and that it's a kind of a limey green as opposed to opposed to a dark green, but I think it's a nice colour. It's so easy to grow, grows fast, really easy to cut. There's not much, there's not much wrong with it. Like, there's not many sort of negatives against it. So uh you would imagine it would be would be more popular.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, I think people lost people lost hedges of it in the big winters of 2010-11.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That was down to cutting it too late, really, and cutting it too tight, because I was getting neighbours who one side of the road was fine, the other side of the road was gone, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Um, but I thought I remember after that going, well, that's the end of grissalline now after that freeze, you know. And her within a couple of years, sales were back up to what they were.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, actually, here in in my mum's house now, there was about a hundred metres of mature grissolinia, and that was just killed. And it wasn't, it wasn't out. I know in certain areas of it had got that hard cut and then the frost that that done a job on it. But around here, we were just so cold for so long, and it it didn't it didn't recover. So, yeah, there was a lot of that around here, but but still there's a lot of them back again, as you say, and they're really robust. They're really robust.
SPEAKER_02:An old nurseryman told me he was like, you should never prune, just don't prune grisolinea after August.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:If you're gonna do it end of August, start to September, and just don't leave it too late. For that reason of especially if you're more in the Midlands and where it can get really cold in the autumn.
SPEAKER_00:Right, that's a good tip. Um you have to watch the rules around cutting hedges, of course.
SPEAKER_02:But exactly, that's why I drifted into uh September there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but no, yeah, that that that makes sense now. Um, because yeah, if you got if you got that cut at the end of August and yeah, it got a little bit of a grow, got to grow out a little bit before any frost potentially would come, yeah, it would make it make it a glass.
SPEAKER_02:I think that's the main that's the main point. That it's not you're you're not skinning it close to the frosty time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um as we start to finish off here, I know you you do like we've talked about the main categories that would be fallen under this bare root season, but you're also doing you know, bulbs, perennials, roses. Actually, roses is something you're doing. Are you doing bare root roses?
SPEAKER_02:I'm I'm doing only a small amount of bare root roses. I'm mainly doing old old varieties and mainly uh ramblers, scramblers, and climbers.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Yeah. Yeah, so you're also doing not not so much of this time of the year. I know you sell them, but they're they're not the main focus this time of the year, but perennials and grasses and bamboos and ferns, just across those sort of categories, anything sort of trending or different or unusual happening at the moment and anything there?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I I I would say for us online, um, mentioning ferns, ferns were kind of a surprise to us.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:We we, you know, we we we people think getting stuff up online is easy, but writing a description, getting a good photo, all that sort of stuff, it it takes time, you know. Yeah, and ferns, we we managed to do ferns quite well a few years ago and we keep adding to it. But we were so we're so surprised every year with how many ferns are selling. So like it's not in a comparison to some of the other big sections, but it's um it is surprising about how many. I just think maybe people have an interest in ferns, maybe it's growing. Um but ferns are definitely moving more. Perennials like right now outside, today was a nice hardy day, but like some days the rain's going sideways and it's all a bit, but if you come into future forests anytime from April, May, June on, uh the place is awash with perennials, and the colour out of them is amazing. We've got some amazing Irish growers of perennials from even from nine centimetres up to two-liter, three-liter pots. Yeah, um, so perennials have definitely been growing for us. We don't put all of them up online because they're a bit trickier to send, you know. Um uh, but look, the colour and what they give to a garden. I would have said when I started landscaping um years ago when I was a young fella, and we were doing, I was working for a great fella called Tommy Hannoran. And when we used to do gardens, perennials were like they were barely a thing. Yeah, they really were like you'd get the odd, the odd one going in. And I would say now, even if I'm planting for someone or doing, you know, uh advising someone, I I'm always trying to get lots of perennials in. You know, it's nice to get that colour.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, it gives it gives you great colour. You probably do, and I think you know, on the podcast we talk about it a lot, trying to bring a bit of balance to it because for a few years there I've seen beds planted and there's nothing only perennials in it. And and you do need you know stuff with a bit of structure and you know, your grasses and your your flowering shrubs, and you know, some of those things got got uh sort of left behind a little bit, but um they're all a vital, vital component of of a of a nice border.
SPEAKER_02:It's it's look, it's important to get a mix, isn't it? You know, yeah and like when anyone comes to me and they say, We want to plant up the old the whole garden, and I'm I'm I'm usually like, look, always try to make room for some natives in your garden. Always, if you can. Even if it's a small hedge or a few trees, ground cover, perennials. But again, as you say, don't don't focus on just one thing. Try to get a broad spectrum across the garden, and then you'll have year-round interest if you do that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Actually, that's that's something since we we last spoke. The the native, non-native, that sort of debate and and uh conversation has really ramped up over the last couple of years since we last spoke. Are you noticing that with the visitors to the to the nursery or definitely, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So like we we've always bought from Irish nurseries, you know. Yeah, we do import as well. Um so there everything you can we can just feel it in demand. People are is that Irish seed? Is it um is it Irish Provenance? You know, yeah. So on our on our on our website, if it's Irish Provenance, we'll mark it as Irish Provenance. In general, the smaller stuff, I'm gonna say Alder, Downy, birch, oak, the kind of 6090s, 4060s are generally Irish provenance. But then if people want bigger, uh it's usually imported stock.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, but it is definitely a conversation that has ramped up since we last spoke a couple of years ago.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, massively, I would say.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, massively. Yeah, and uh there's it's not a debate we'll get into here, but there is you know, there's several sides to the conversation, and uh some people fall too much on one side or the other, and yeah, it's it's but it it it is a debate that's well in the public domain now over the last while.
SPEAKER_02:It is, it is. Look, from my from my perspective, for us it's always been about a bit of balance, you know. Like I can't always get the stock that I need when I need it to sell to people, you know. And as I said, we've always always and always have promoted native and and native provenance, and it's just about sometimes I don't have enough, so I'll have a bit of this and a bit of that, you know. Yeah, and it's all it's all from trusted growers that we've been buying off for 20 years.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's important for sure.
SPEAKER_02:You know, the business was started in 1986 by my wife's parents, and we're running it now 17, 18 years, something like that. But this we're turning 40 next year, so we've we've got a big birthday next year, so we'll be having lots of celebrations. So it's it's it's like you're saying there, they originally bought from us. I often think of the amount of trees and gardens and plants that must be around the the country from those 40 years of retailing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But it's always nice. Uh people come in, they say, God, I bought this tiny tree off you, and it's now you know 60 foot high kind of a thing, you know. So it's always nice to get the feedback.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and there's a bit of when you're when you're saying that, when you're asking the question about these trees and and and shrubs and so on over the last 40 years and where they are, and then you tie it back to your name. I suppose that is that is exactly what you know the the name is future forests.
SPEAKER_02:So exactly, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Something that was planted that length ago is now a forest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice, nice tie-in there. That wasn't planned, but it worked out well. Um, so as we start to close off there, anyway, obviously bare root season is you know in full swing now. Just a couple of top tips for people. I know you mentioned some of them at the start. A couple of top top tips for people to be successful with bare roots. They're generally easy, and I uh I recommend you know, obviously, the watering as we enter into next spring is hugely critical. Staking if it needs staking and so on. Any anything else you'd like to add to that?
SPEAKER_02:Um, I have a thing, never let a root go in the ground dry. You know, even if you think there's two inches of rain coming tonight and you're trying to plant your hedge, I always recommend dipping the root before planting. Um I mean that's basic advice, but I think that works. Um uh don't be afraid of it. You know, I think people sometimes think it's bare-rooted. If it's sitting outside of the bag for two minutes, it's going to it's going to die, but they're very, very hardy, you know. So don't be afraid of it. Just handle them sensibly, you know. Um, if you're planting a lot, I used to always say, if you've got your main bulk there, keep a small bag with 20 or 30 in the bag, keep a bucket of muddy water with you, dip and plant. Um, I think watering it in the spring when if we do get those dry spells, as you say, is absolutely crucial. Um and yeah, generally, yeah, don't be afraid of it. If if it's if it's if it's if it's a good size, stake it. I think staking is important. I think before people used to see it as an extra expense, you know, but particularly for fruit trees. I think the strimmers and things like that kill more fruit trees than you can imagine. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. So a stake is a bit of a guard and a bit of a uh you know a thing to stay away from it, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But um I think the big thing is don't be afraid of it, you know. Yeah, like you're gonna have to get the hands dirty, but it's it's it's uh it's it's good, good, honest, decent work.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that that that's a it's a good tip, but it's one that's overlooked a lot. You know, you you go ahead now and you buy your your 200 beach or whatever it may be, and it comes in a in a plastic bag tied on top, lock it in moisture. That's the purpose of that. Uh you get at home, you heal the bag out on the lawn, and it takes you five hours to plant the the couple of hundred, and you have them left sitting on the on the lawn in the wind, and those roots will dry out. And that's really important. Just just feed, take them out of the bag as you're going along, just have a small few and keep the it's a basic tip, but it's it's actually really critical.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we we we we would get it, we would get asked it all the time, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's it is critical. Something that I also use anytime I'm planting is I use mycorrhizal fungi, especially on bear roots. Um I I always use it, and I have for the last 15 years seen the results of it. Um, so that's something that I always recommend. And then obviously they come coming into next spring, that watering piece is really important. Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So you're not hard to find, but maybe tell people where they can find you as we start to close off. I'll put we'll put the links in the show notes and all that sort of thing as well, so that people can can can find you there. But you're as I say, you're not hard to find anywhere.
SPEAKER_02:So online would be futureforest.ie. And um look, there's there's uh there's a lot there on the website. Um, but look, the amount of people who phone us or email us looking for advice, and we're very, very happy to advise and help people out with choosing what they want. And also, if you're anywhere nearby or you're planning a trip, uh we're obviously in Kelkill there, um, down in West Cork, yeah, near Bantry.
SPEAKER_00:Brilliant. Yeah, it's uh it's been a few years since we since we chatted on the podcast. We have talked elsewhere, but uh yeah, it's it's uh great to have you back on. Uh great to hear how things have changed and evolved over the last few years. Great to hear that things are still going really well for you guys down there. As I said at the start, the advice and the selection is second to none. Uh so that's that's really worth checking out. And Matty, thank you very much for coming on Master My Garden Podcast.
SPEAKER_02:Uh a pleasure and thank you for inviting me.
SPEAKER_00:So that's been this week's episode. A huge thanks to Matty for coming on. Yeah, a few years since we chatted, but uh a lot of the sound advice is is still the same. Um, from as I said at the start, from future forest perspective, you will get really good advice in relation to each and every plant down there. And you know, when it comes to things like choosing something size-wise, what you're gonna what you can expect for for that tree over time, the advice is uh is yeah, top-notch down there, so really worth checking out. Uh, a couple of good episodes as we start to close off for Christmas coming up over the next week or two, and uh yeah, this week's one is hugely important time. Bare root season is right smack bang, up and running now, and uh it's a great time, as we've mentioned several times, for hedges, trees, fruit bushes, roses, all that sort of thing. So, yeah, get out there and get planting. And that's been this week's episode. Thanks for listening, and until the next time, happy garden.